New and important arabic book with Audio Sharh about "Aslu din, Udhr bil Jahl,.."

Discussion in 'Islamic Theology and Ideology' started by Abu Abdulahad, Aug 2, 2012.

  1. Abu Abdulahad

    Abu Abdulahad Formerly AbuIman_alMaghrabi

  2. justabro

    justabro Salafi (Retd.)

    Why exactly is this so important?
  3. Abu Abdulahad

    Abu Abdulahad Formerly AbuIman_alMaghrabi

    I want to point out (with my bad english) why this Mas`ala is so important

    Because of the separation between Tawheed and Shirk, between Muslimin and Mushrikeen.

    This clear separation has been lost for many people and there are some argumentative gateways or shubuhat to destroy this basic islamic seperation

    Many people think today, this shubuhat allows them to mix Tauheed and Shirk, Haqq with Batil
    For example: to get the clear mushrikin or tawgheet into islam,..., even when they accept that they do shirk akbar.
    For example: They say, Yes he does shirk akbar, but because of his Jahl he is still a muslim till the huja reached him.

    I think this is one of the catastrophic desasters in our times. Not knowing where are the frontiers between a Muslim and a Mushrik.

    If you understand arabic then you can study the book with his audio explanation.

    I think and hope then you will understand better inshallah
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2012
    abumuwahid likes this.
  4. justabro

    justabro Salafi (Retd.)

    I see. So if we disagree with the author, can we still be Muslims?
  5. Abu Abdulahad

    Abu Abdulahad Formerly AbuIman_alMaghrabi

    I think that is another Mas`ala.

    Is the baraa from the mushrikin a part of Aslu Din?
    Or, can someone build up his Islam without the baraa from the mushrikin?

    You must search and answer such questions for yourself.
    It`s your din and responsibility.

    But this Mas`ala is not the subject in this book and i think the author didn`t write anything about this Mas`ala yet.

    If you disagree with the explaining or conclusions of the author, it would be nice to explain exactly why?
    It would help me, maybe the author, and everybody else to understand the religion better, no matter if you wrong or right... everything could be a help.
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2012
  6. Abu Sulayman

    Abu Sulayman Active Member

    Assalamu 'alaykum wa rahmatullah,

    the guy who wrote the book is Abu Hamzah al-Afghani and this guy has a book in German language with the name "Eine ruhige Kritik an den kaempfenden Gruppen". In that book he makes Takfir upon all Mujahidin of today: Shaykh 'Abdullah 'Azzam (rahimahullah), Amir Khattab (rahimahullah), the Taliban and all other Mujahidin (whom he calls as "kaempfende Gruppen"/the fighting groups).

    His older brother (i.e. Abul Khattab) was also one from the Ghulat at-Takfir and then apostisized and became a Rafidhi, but it seems that Abu Hamzah has not learned from that incident.

    May Allah ta'ala protect us from such people.
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2012
  7. Abu Abdulahad

    Abu Abdulahad Formerly AbuIman_alMaghrabi

    Now, You have to prove your assertion, or you're a liar by the methodes of ahlul sunnah wal djamma3.

    He didn`t wrote a single takfir in his book.

    He made a "quiet criticism" (that means "Eine ruhige Kritik").
    About what? About the same issue "udhr bil Jahl", and i think long before you even knew the existence of this subject in germany.

    For blind followers of holy mens maybe a quiet criticism about a few people means for them a takfir against the whole planet,
    but the truth is: Nowhere in his book he made one single takfir against anybody.

    He only points out (that was the quiet criticism) that some people on the djihadi Manhaj have the same opinion like many other groups,
    namely that a clear mushrik can be a muslim for them, because of their Jahl, thats all.

    Is this a right Opinon for you Abu Sulayman ? Is this your djihad for the truth? Is this your islamic righteousness for Allah (t)?

    So either Abu Sulayman you can not read exactly, or you are a liar who can not stop lying even during ramadan, Allahu Mustaan

    May Allah ta'ala protect us from such ignorant people and false dirty methods
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2012
  8. abuhannah

    abuhannah Well-Known Member


    "Can you see what it is yet?"....

    Rolf Harris
  9. Abu Sulayman

    Abu Sulayman Active Member

    Okay, let's say I and almost everyone who has heard about him has misunderstood him.

    I've a very simple question: Do you regard the Taliban as muslims? Yes or no?

    And I gave a salam, but you didn't respond to that. Why? Am I not a muslim for you?

    Was someone like Shaykh Ibn 'Uthaymin (rahimahullah) a muslim?

    Was Shaykh 'Abdullah 'Azzam (rahimahullah) a muslim?
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2012
  10. Abdul Malik

    Abdul Malik New Member

    On what grounds can the Taliban be Kuffar? Do they believe in shirk or something ? Defending their territory can never be kufr akbar.
  11. Abu Abdulahad

    Abu Abdulahad Formerly AbuIman_alMaghrabi

    The Mas`ala are not the taliban, a single person or another group.

    The mas`ala is on the book and in the audio sharh.

    You can say i agree because ... or i disagree because .... and then you can explain why.

    Your desire for fitna is not my desire. Your hate or love against other people or groups is not my problem.

    Maybe you establishing your religion (or separte al haqq from Batil) through the relationship of people to other people or groups,
    i didn`t do that, thats not my religion or even a method of my religion.

    Your lies and your dirty tricks of diversion is not why i am here.

    Nowhere is a Takfir about all mujahidin or something like that in his books or audios, so you become a liar through the methods of ahlul sunnah wal djamma3.
    And i have the full right to say this, because you have not brought a single evidence for your ignorant lies.

    So what Abu Sulayman said is an ignorant and dirty lie against a good brother, i have no doubt in it.

    Abu Hamza al Afghany is a very kind talibul `ilm and a brother with good adab walhamdulillah,
    he is talking only about islamic masa`il, and i think about very important masa`il of our times.

    The german region is unfortunately Darul Jahl.

    Sufis, Ahbash, madkhaliya, ikhwan, rafidha, youtube anasheed Mudschaheddin, whatever....
    and often the people can not understand anything of scientific arguments or islamic Dalil.
    They know nothing, can not speak arabic, truly only pure Jahl, ...
    So they do rumors about other people. Thats their hobby and ibaada for Allah, all day all night.

    Every talibul `ilm with knowledge in the arabic language, with knowledge in the debated Masa`il,
    with adab and hikma can hear and see himself ...
    and does not need such shaitanic methods of lying and unproven accusations from an Abu Fitna
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2012
  12. Abu Sulayman

    Abu Sulayman Active Member

    "Dirty tricks"? I'm a little bit surprised by your expression to be honest.

    (You can believe me that I've no bad intentions and that I would never ever say something intentionally wrong about other people.)

    You told you me that I've misunderstood him, right? I asked you whether you regard the persons and groups, which I mentioned in my last post, as muslims?

    Why is it so difficult to answer??
    If you and Abu Hamzah al-Afghani regard the mentioned people as muslims, then please tell me that, so I can apologize. Agreed?
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2012
  13. Abu Abdulahad

    Abu Abdulahad Formerly AbuIman_alMaghrabi

    My religion is Islam, and in islam I or somebody else must not prove what i did not say or did.

    YOU must prove what you said and what are you doing here, and if you do not, you are a Kadhab.

    I will not change my religion for a kadhab and his falsehood.
  14. Tuwaylib

    Tuwaylib Anti-Defeatist

    do these guys take drugs?
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  15. Abu Sulayman

    Abu Sulayman Active Member

    Hope I'm not included in "these guys", dear brother.

    I'm fasting and this means that I can't take any drugs. ;-)

    I didn't tell you to prove anything, rather I asked you a question. And that question is important, because if the mentioned people are not muslims, then one should not take one's Din from them, right?

    And in Islam we don't hide our beliefs like some batini Zanadiqah did (or as some Asha'irah do, when it comes to their belief regarding the Qur`an al-karim).
    So if you would ask me let's say regarding Ibn al-'Arabi, then I would say: "He's a disbeliever, stay away from him".
    And if you you would ask me regarding Imam Ibn Qudamah, then I would say: "He was one of the greatest scholars of the Hanabilah, may Allah ta'ala have mercy upon him."

    So I asked you a simple question: Are the people, whom I mentioned two posts ago, muslims?

    (If you don't answer to this question, then be sure that no one here will take you or that "important book" serious.)
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2012
    Plum, justabro and Abdul Malik like this.
  16. Abu Abdulahad

    Abu Abdulahad Formerly AbuIman_alMaghrabi


    I dont know much about the taliban, their fractions, and i dont know much about many people and groups worldwide or in this forum,
    but what i know is something about the issue of the thread.

    If the taliban, the ikhwan, Qardawi, Dhawahiri, (or whoever) do not know that a mushrik can not be a muslim,
    then their have a false opinion in the basics of islam and someone must explain it to them.
    If they have something good in their hearts they will take the righteousness immediately inshallah,
    And if they have something bad in their hearts they will never accept the haqq and will stay in their batil.
    Or maybe they separate in different groups, pieces of Haqq and Batil

    If the taliban (or whoever) knows that a mushrik can never be a muslim,
    then their have a right opinion in the basics of islam
    and may allah taala give them taufiq in seperating Haqq from Batil, Tauhid from Shirk and the muslimin from the mushrikin.

    That is my opinion, and if you know more about specific persons and groups and their opinions about this thread issue ...nice for you

    If your have the false ahkam in this mas`ala and if you know that the taliban or whoever have the same falsehood like you,
    or you know that everyone here will take you as a shaikh of the forum,
    May Allah taala guide you, the taliban and the whole forum.

    But I think and hope everybody with a little bit hikma will see that you, your silly questions and methods have nothing to do with hidaya.
    You have only contaminated this thread. For you this whole issue and thread is only a game.
    You are a ignorant Jahil without `ilm or respect for the Din.
    Go and sing some anasheed about mullah umar, hekmatyar or whoever, but let this thread clean for people with more seriousness, `ilm and adab.
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2012
  17. Muneer88

    Muneer88 هنيئاً لك الشهادة

    That pdf book seems to be a work of someone salivating at the prospect of some ignorant Muslims reading and actually believing that the current "udhr bi jahl" that Ahlu sunnah consider as ijmaa' these days, can be abolished by this 124 pages pdf .
    Not that it surprises me either that the author is Abu Hamza Al-Afghani who's a staunch admirer of Abu Mariyam Mukhlif Al-takferee
  18. Muneer88

    Muneer88 هنيئاً لك الشهادة

    here we go again, seems that the followers of the defunct "darul Tawheed" forum and paltalk room are at it usual..they consider themselves to be the only people that can be considered as muslims as the remainder general Muslim population are mushrikeen in the chain takferee opinion of Abu Mariyam al-mukhlef and his student Abu Hamza Al-Afghani
  19. Abu Hurairah

    Abu Hurairah Well-Known Member

    Abu Iman, answer his question, please.
  20. justabro

    justabro Salafi (Retd.)

    I'm not really sure what he means by Aslu Din, so I'm not sure what to make of all this. However, I'm pretty sure it's safe for me to say the Asl of my Din is faith in Allah, His Angels, His Books, His Messengers, the Last Day and Qadar, and to pray, give zakah, fast, and make Hajj.

    Bara'a from Mushrikin has a fundamental place, of course, but it didn't quite make it into that list.

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