Quranist rise and end of Sunni/Shia sects

Discussion in 'Islam in General' started by Bigmo, Jul 12, 2009.

  1. Bigmo

    Bigmo Banned

    With the collapse of Ja'far Al Sadiq's empire in Iran and Ibn Hanbal's slow demise in Saudi Arabia, the tide is turning and the fictitous sects that emerged during the Abbasid Empire knows as the Sunni and Shia sects and others who follow man made revelations known as hadiths are slowly collapsing. Malik's Empire in Sudan is collapsing and Abu Hanifa's Empire in Pakistan is turning upside down. The so called Islamic states have proven to be ideologically obsolete and in the wrong side of history. The sects are on life support and the Koranist will take over. So who are the Koranist?

    The Koranist believe only the Koran should speak for Islam.


    In comparing the teachings of Islam as derived from the Book of God to the practices taught and enforced by the popular Sunni and Shia faiths (1.2 Bn followers), we find that the list is quite extensive, with some of the highlights as follows:

    In Islam, the requirement to be a Muslim is to simply accept and live according to the �Straight Path� (6:151-153), Vs. the Sunni or Shia 5-pillars which come from unauthorized books�

    In Islam, abolishing Slavery is taught to be an act of righteousness (90:12-13), Vs. Sunni and Shia teachings which encourages slavery under war�

    In Islam, women are never forbidden from praying or fasting during Menstruation (2:222), nor is there a specific dress code (i.e. the Headscarf) imposed on them beyond modesty, Vs. the Sunni and Shia which teach the undermining of women and forcing them to cover their hair and avoid praying or fasting at certain times...

    In Islam, a man or women may leave a Will, after settlement of debt (4:12), Vs. Sunnis who refuse to accept wills if there are any direct descendants...

    In Islam, Monogamy is the basis for normal relationships, while polygamy is only allowed in cases involving marrying the mothers of orphans under the man�s guardianship (4:3), Vs. Sunnis where a man may be a polygamist simply if he can afford to, and Shia which allow sex for pleasure (Mut�a)...

    In Islam, Divorce is enforceable only after a two-phase period, and it may be made nullified if the couple reconcile before the end of this period (65:1, 65:4), Vs. Sunni teachings that destroy families by allowing a divorce to occur on the spot with no waiting period and no nullification...

    In Islam, Thieves do not have their hands cut-off, but are made to work until they return that which is stolen (12:76), Vs. Sunni and Shia teachings which brutally amputate the hands causing disability...

    In Islam, no one is allowed to be killed or Stoned for adultery (24:2), Vs. Sunni and Shia laws of stoning married adulterers to death...

    In Islam, absolute Freedom of Faith is allowed (2:256, 10:99; 18:29; 88:21-22), Vs. Sunni and Shia requiring apostates to be killed and rejecting the practice of other faiths...

    In Islam, people are acknowledged as being diverse and each is to be respected for his/her level of spiritual growth. A Submitter �Muslim� must work to attain the status of Faithful �Mumin� (49:14), Vs. Sunni and Shia teachings that all followers of their religion must think, act, and even look the same (cult syndrome)...

    In Islam, War can only be declared in cases of self-defence - no offensives (2:190), Vs. Sunni and Shia teachings allowing raids and attacks on any people who are considered non-Muslim by their standards...

    In Islam, Pilgrimage is a centre for gathering of nations and for all to witness the benefits of being together (22:27-28), Vs. Sunni and Shia bringing in polytheistic rituals and superstition (touching of black stone, circling 7 times, etc..)...

    In Islam, a Year is a luni-solar count made of 365-days (17:12, 9:36), with all the seasons fitting-in-place Vs. Sunnis teaching it to be a lunar one based on 354 days which creates confusion of seasons and time�

    In Islam, males and females are not required to be Circumcised (32:7), Vs. Sunni and Shia teachings requiring all males to be circumcised and females in some cases...

    In Islam, music, statues, gold and silk are all Lawful(7:32-33, 16:116), Vs. Sunni beliefs forbidding silk & gold for men, and forbidding music & statues for all...

    In Islam, rule of Government is under the constitution of the Qur'an through consultation and free-speech (5:48, 42:38). Vs. Sunni teachings which allow the rise of dictators or monarchs, and Shia teachings which uphold self-appointed religious leaders based on genealogy.

    The concept of the Sunnah was invented by Imam Al Shafi in his Risala treatise. It has the same place in Islam as the Talmud has on Judaism. Jesus condemned the Talmud and its followers the Pharisees in the Gospel and so did the Koran.

    Matt 15:1-3 "Then the scribes and Pharisees who were from Jerusalem came to Jesus, saying, "Why do Your disciples transgress the tradition of the elders? For they do not wash their hands when they eat bread." He answered and said to them, "Why do you also transgress the commandment of God because of your tradition?"

    Matt 23:31-33 "Therefore you are witnesses against yourselves that you are sons of those who murdered the prophets. Fill up, then, the measure of your fathers' guilt. Serpents, brood of vipers! How can you escape the condemnation of hell?"

    The Koran confirmed Jesus and the Gospel regarding the blind followers of the Talmud who negated the Old Testament.

    Sanhedrin 57a . A Jew need not pay a gentile ("Cuthean") the wages owed him for work.

    The Koran condemned this:
    3.75. Among the People of the Book are some who, if entrusted with a hoard of gold, will (readily) pay it back; others, who, if entrusted with a single silver coin, will not repay it unless thou constantly stoodest demanding, because, they say, "there is no call on us (to keep faith) with these ignorant (Pagans)." but they tell a lie against God, and (well) they know it

    In the authentic, original Talmud text it states that "whoever preserves a single soul of Israel, it is as if he had preserved an entire world" (emphasis supplied). The authentic Talmud text sanctions only the saving of Jewish lives.

    The Koran tells us about this and condemns this:

    5.32 On that account: We ordained for the Children of Israel that if any one slew a person - unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief in the land - it would be as if he slew the whole people: and if any one saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of the whole people. Then although there came to them Our apostles with clear signs, yet, even after that, many of them continued to commit excesses in the land

    "According to the Talmud, Jesus was executed by a proper rabbinical court for idolatry, inciting other Jews to idolatry, and contempt of rabbinical authority. All classical Jewish sources which mention his execution are quite happy to take responsibility for it; in the talmudic account the Romans are not even mentioned.

    "The more popular accounts--which were nevertheless taken quite seriously--such as the notorious Toldot Yeshu are even worse, for in addition to the above crimes they accuse him of witchcraft. The very name 'Jesus' was for Jews a symbol of all that is abominable and this popular tradition still persists...

    On the eve of Passover Jesus was hanged. For forty days before the execution took place, a herald went forth and cried, "He is going forth to be stoned because he has practiced sorcery and enticed Israel to apostasy. Anyone who can say anything in his favor let him come forward and plead on his behalf." But since nothing was brought forward in his favor, he was hanged on the eve of Passover. Ulla retorted: Do you suppose he was one for whom a defense could be made? Was he not a mesith (enticer), concerning whom Scripture says, "Neither shall thou spare nor shall thou conceal him?" With Jesus, however, it was different, for he was connected with the government. (Sanhedrin 43a)

    The koran tells us:

    4.157. That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of God.;- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not:-

    Gehinom (Gehenna), according to rabbinic literature, is a place or state where the wicked are temporarily punished after death. “Gehenna” is sometimes translated as "hell", but the Christian view of hell differs from the Jewish view of Gehenna. Most sinners are said to suffer in Gehenna no longer than twelve months.Those who are too wicked to reach paradise are sometimes said to be punished forever.

    The Koran responds by:

    2.80 And they say: "The Fire shall not touch us but for a few numbered days:" Say: "Have ye taken a promise from God, for He never breaks His promise? or is it that ye say of God what ye do not know?"

    Al Shafi claimed in his risala the Koran is insufficient as a religious guide and said the Sunnah was in the hands of "specialist" and is unknown to the public.

    33. He asked: What is the second kind?

    34. Shafi’i replied: It consists of the detailed duties and rules obligatory on men, concerning which there exists neither a text in the Book of God, nor regarding most of them, a sunna. Whenever a sunna exists [in this case], it is of the kind related by few authorities, not by the public, and is subject to different interpretations arrived at by analogy.

    35. He asked: Is [legal knowledge on this kind as obligatory as the other, or is it not obligatory so that he who acquires such knowledge performs a supererogatory act, and he who neglects it falls not into error? Or, is there a third kind, derived from a narrative (khabar) or analogy?

    36. [Shafi’i] replied: There is a third kind [of knowledge].

    37. He asked: Will you explain it, give its source, and state what [portion] of it is obligatory, and on whom it is binding and on whom it is not binding?

    38. [Shafi’i] replied: The public is incapable of knowing this kind of knowledge, nor can all specialists obtain it. But those who do obtain it should not all neglect it. If some can obtain it, the others are relieved of the duty [of obtaining it]; but those who do obtain it will be rewarded.

    This bida' was intorduced in the era of the Abbasids to nullify the Koran. Prior to Al Shafi nobody heard of something called the Sunnah.

    "And certainly We have repeated for humankind, in this Qur’an, every kind of example, but the majority of humankind do not consent to anything but denying."(17:89)

    "A. L. R. These are the verses of a Book,- and a Qur'an that makes things clear. "(15:1)

    “And certainly We have brought them a Book, which We have detailed with knowledge, a guidance and mercy for a people who believe”(7:52)

    “Thus do We make the revelations detailed for a people who reflect” (10:24)

    "And We have revealed the Book to you which has the clear explanation of everything, and a guidance and mercy and good news for those who submit."(16:89)

    These are verses of the Qur'an,-a book that makes (things) clear;"(27:1)

    “In their histories there is certainly a lesson for men of understanding. It is not a narrative which could be forged, but a verification of what is before it and a distinct explanation of all things and a guide and a mercy to a people who believe.”(12:111)

    Koran is peace!
  2. Layth

    Layth Abu Shawarma

    What's the deal with all these murtaddeen and mushrik cults that have been invading the place lately? First Baha'is and now these so-called "submitters"?
  3. Could be that anyone that is not an arab that reads hadeeth, thinks they are nothing btu superstitious fairy tales.
    or, people playing chinese whispers for 130 years with a bunch of jews.
  4. Surah 110. An-Nasr (Succour, Divine Support)​
    In the name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.
    1. When comes the Help of Allah, and Victory,
    2. And thou dost see the people enter Allah.s Religion in crowds,
    3. Celebrate the praises of thy Lord, and pray for His Forgiveness: For He is Oft-Returning (in Grace and Mercy).

    You will see how islam will dominate the earth.
    Satanist Jew: GO ON
    Satanist Jew: PROMOTE YOUR ISLAM

    Satanist Jew: IN THAT WE HAVE WON

    Satanist Jew: THE MATERIAL IS OURS
    Satanist Jew: THE PAGAN MATERIAL

    Amazing what you can find out when you provoke jews!
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2009
  6. Layth

    Layth Abu Shawarma

    Calm down and educate yourself. If you keep going like this then you will soon have to retake your shahada. Clearly you do not know what you're talking about, so just calm down and don't say something you will regret for eternity. You're new to islam so be humble and stop talking like you're some kind of authority in islam. May Allah guide us all.
  7. I am mujahid.
    I am humble to those whom i am in agreement with.
    I am stern with those who i am in disagreement with.
    You claim i do not know what i am talking about, without providing evidence for your claims, other than character assassination, such as "you are new to islam", which is irrelevant, as the word being spoken is what is relevant.
    There is NO authority on islam, it is what it is.
    Trying to claim some sort of "uber-muslim" status, and then telling the "unter-muslims" to shut their face, is hardly something anyone is going to tolerate.
    You have to use words to back up your claims.
    Are you going to back up your claims?
  8. Captain Gora

    Captain Gora RefuteEverythingThatMoves

    Oh my......
  9. Umm Ahmed

    Umm Ahmed 2C oursels as ithers C us

    That's strange you just said in an other thread

    Can I ask how did you come to islaam ?
  10. I got a hat, and put names of religions in it, i then pulled one out randomly, and said "i will now be this religion". :rolleyes:

    i sure didnt' convert reading hadeeth.
  11. AbuJunayd

    AbuJunayd Active Member

    These so called "Quraniyoon" or parvezis who deny Hadith are completely ignorant of Islam and the reality of Hadith.

    The Quran repeatedly refers to referring to the Messenger of Allah (SAW) even referrring to his utterances as being Wahey (revelation).

    The Sunnah was transmitted through the same mechanism as the Quran, ie isnad, moreover the Tawattur hadith are an absoluted authority as like the Quran you have multiple chains from multiple sahaba narrating from the Prohpet (SAW) directly, if you deny them then you deny the Quran.

    Also the Quran refers to how Allah protects the Zikr "inna nahnou nazalna az-zikr wa inna lahu lahafizoon" the zikr ncludes the Sunnah because the Quran alone doesnt provide the complete details of revelation, eg Salaah is not detailed in the Quran, let these deniers of Hadith find where in the Quran alone it states Dhohar is 4 Rakat, Asr 4 etc.

    The Sahabi understood the authority of the commands of the Prophet, they conveyed to us the Quran, so some fools in the 21st Century now some how know something the ones devoted to Islam made a fundamental mistake on?

    Another Irony is that in there desire to deny hadith to "tone" down the commands of Allah o appease kuffar, well thats also a lost cause because the Quran is very stringent in admonishing the kuffar, in the verses of Jihad, I mean if you what would they say about Surah At-Tawba? I mean even the prohibition on killing of cutting trees in Jihad from Al Badr was a Hadith, so if they deny that then surely the gloves are even more off so they snookered themselves.

    As for his point Muslims are rejecting "man made" hadith - well he is truly delusional, the reverse if happening.

    And finally there is no argument to say hadith are mand made, what utter and complete nonsense. The Shahabi who had unwavering loyalty to the Deen traveled far and wide in the path of Allah. There trust was beyond doubt, they also taught where they settled so you have vast disparate areas where they transmitted numerous narrations from and where eventually scholastic institutions developed and they carry identical narrations, ie. from Sham to Iraq independent companions narrated to Tabieen and down and they all carried the same narrations, there is no possibility of men following them to have colluded on a lie.

    Each men in the chains of narration where vetted, the process stands the highest objective scrutiny.

    So if the Quraniyoon are stuck, narrations definitely go back to the Sahabi (Abu Hurayrah (RA) even had physical written narrations), the Sahabi are the ones who also were involved in assembling the quran in book form and distributed it (Im glossing over this, because Hafsa (RA) had a full copy of Quran during the life of the Prophet (SAW). So we can prove the Hadith back to the Sahabi definitely, then the Quraniyoon must be saying the Shahabi (Radiallahuanhum ajmaeen) are lying on Hadith (aoozobillah), then by extension they must be doing the same for the Quran. They cant have it both ways, either they should re-evaluate their stance and re-enter Islam by accepting Hadith, or anounce that they were apostates all along.

    They are intellectually dishonest and compeletly misguided
  12. That's 100% not true.
    The final sermon of Muhammed suggests the Quran was in BOOK FORM.
    How many years after Islam was in iberia was the hadeeth in book form?
  13. Projecting.

    That is complete nonsense!

    Hadeeth is chinese whispers by a bunch of mekkan jews.
  14. abu hafs

    abu hafs Anti-Shirk

    LOL. Do you not see the contradiction ?
    The hadiths were transmitted by the same people whom trasnmitted the last sermon .
  15. Yes, and there is 3 different versions of the last sermon in the hadeeths.
    haha, and that's with 10,000+++ people around to hear it.
  16. anti-shirk's the name, putting hadeeth on the same level of Quran is your game!

  17. Surah 96. Al-'Alaq (The Clot, Read!)​
    In the name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.

    1. Proclaim! (or read!) in the name of thy Lord and Cherisher, Who created-
    2. Created man, out of a (mere) clot of congealed blood:
    3. Proclaim! And thy Lord is Most Bountiful,-
    4. He Who taught (the use of) the pen,-
    5. Taught man that which he knew not.
    6. Day, but man doth transgress all bounds,
    7. In that he looketh upon himself as self-sufficient.
    8. Verily, to thy Lord is the return (of all).
    9. Seest thou one who forbids-
    10. A votary when he (turns) to pray?
    11. Seest thou if he is on (the road of) Guidance?-
    12. Or enjoins Righteousness?
    13. Seest thou if he denies (Truth) and turns away?
    14. Knoweth he not that Allah doth see?
    15. Let him beware! If he desist not, We will drag him by the forelock,-
    16. A lying, sinful forelock!
    17. Then, let him call (for help) to his council (of comrades):
    18. We will call on the angels of punishment (to deal with him)!
    19. Day, heed him not: But bow down in adoration, and bring thyself the closer (to Allah.!

    you don't think Muhammed, being the greatest statesmen and leader in history, and the genius he was, didn't learn how to read and write in the 30 years since the first revelation to his death?

  18. Umm Ahmed

    Umm Ahmed 2C oursels as ithers C us


    Who told you to reject hadith? if you were a non muslim before , you would have had to be told this. How do you pray ?
  19. Who told me to obey hadeeth?
    the hadeeth is all weak in comparison to Quran.
    Anything that needs a scholar to "Decode" is nonsense.
    I like to read hadeeth, it has some good "wisdom" in it.
    But that's about it, you can get that same wisdom in other ways, because it is NOT revelation.
    What do you mean how do i pray?
    how did the muslims in alandalus pray before the hadeeth even existed?
    Supposedly the shia and sunni sects(which are forbidden) came out of arguments over the hadeeths.
    There is nothing the Quran doesn't explain.
    It's perfect!
  20. Umm Ahmed

    Umm Ahmed 2C oursels as ithers C us

    The Sunnah explains the Quran

    I replied to you in an other thread read it .


Share This Page