Saudi Arabia's dual identity

Discussion in 'Global Affairs' started by Hamza, Jun 20, 2008.

  1. Hamza

    Hamza Member

  2. Abu Abdallah al-Bulghari

    Abu Abdallah al-Bulghari <A HREF="showthread.php?t=70991"></A>

    It seems like every single Kaafir journalist in Saudi Arabia is on holy mission to find all kinds of filth: stupid teenagers, greedy secularist filthy rich merchants, juvenile delinquents.

    That's the nature of journalism.

    I have been for 3 weeks in S.Arabia and all I noticed were signs of organized piety.

    To really appreciate what is the preciousness of the environment in S. Arabia to a Muslim is, I advise to take a trip for 3 weeks and return back to your Kuffaar neighborhoods and see a difference.

    Those BBC journalists are pigs who in every even most clean environment will find what they want: filth.

    Surely the situation in S.Arabia could be improved.

    How about stoning that couple in the coffee shop right on the spot?

    How about chopping the heads of every teenager that attacked religious police right on the spot?

    How about publicly flogging the owners of the filthy market that forbids Good and enjoins Evil by not allowing the religious police in there?
  3. Ibn Adam

    Ibn Adam Jū yoku sei gō

    I assume if you only came for 3 weeks then you came on a umrah/hajj visa which would restrict you to the cities of Makkah and Madinah.

    Never the less your rebuttal of the journalist, in all honesty, seems somewhat ill informed.

    Anyone living here is very aware that these things do go on. The shuyukh are well aware of the state of the youth and speak out against the evils that they see. Evils, which are often very visible.

    It's much better than any Western city (which is why I'm here) but don't be under the delusion that there is nothing rotten going on.

    I don't think it was perceptive journalism on the BBC's part at all they were merely stating the obvious.

    You don't have to drive very far to find some Saudi youth in a flash car with his email address on the back window. They spend their weekends driving around in circles in the shopping areas blasting loud music, singing and clapping to attract attention to themselves.

    Visiting a mall is saddening, particularly the fun fairs. It's like a discreet meat market. Groups of young Muslims walking around checking each other out, quickly meeting up to exchange brief conversations or phone numbers for later rendezvous.

    Young men constantly checking their bluetooth to see who's in the area so that they can start sending pictures/video clips to them.

    Young ladies who take money to pretend to be young men's family in order to get them past guards into the "family" only malls.

    The reality is that there is a lot of boy/girl courting going on (and boy/boy to be absolutely frank), some less discreet than others.

    The quality of women covering is declining. You get young ladies walking with open abayas, see through niqabs/hijabs/abayas, some even not wearing head covering at all (and I don't mean just the ex-pats and maids).

    Just last Wednesday on the way home from work we drove past a group of four men and three women, all the women were wearing shorts. We felt like we'd taken a wrong turning and ended up in London.

    The religious police are under a lot of pressure from influential secularists and their media. The papers love stories about their "mistakes" and call for a reduction in their power. Even their visibility is reduced compared to years gone by. I think I've seen the religious police walking around, maybe three times in two years.

    The scholars are aware that their is something amiss in the society, they do speak out against it and there are pious individuals with clout who support them.

    There is a big psychological battle for the minds and hearts of the people going on in Saudi Arabia at the moment, between the religious and the secularists.

    But the solution is certainly not in what you described below.

    That's really an extreme statement. The hadd of stoning is applied to a married person who is witnessed in the act of intercourse by four people. Not to two unrelated youths drinking coffee in Starbucks together. The religious police do on occasion catch the youth pestering ladies and they do get public lashes at times.

    That's bizarre thing to say. They should be arrested and brought before a Qadhi to decide the punishment. Islam doesn't advocate anarchic discipline meted out on the spot like this. They should certainly be punished, but you seem to have a rudimentary understanding of how Islamic law is implemented.

    It's sad but a lot of the society runs on wasta (having important connections) and the brothers in religious police do have to be careful at times because they can get trouble when the person they're arresting happens to be from some important family.

    Rich people can and do get away with a lot of things. It tends to be the poorer that actually get punished for what they're caught doing rather than the rich.

    Coming for 'umrah or visiting Madinah won't really expose you to the society as a whole. You'll likely be on a spiritual high and not notice some things or be surrounded by others on a similar high and assume that this is what it's like.

    But even then you can still see a lot of wrong. On my first 'umrah I saw these two guys driving around sort of kerb crawling whistling at some sisters within a 2 minute walk from the haram!
  4. Hamza

    Hamza Member

    Thanks for the comments akhi Ibn Adam. for many of us it is a rare insight. Just goes to prove that maybe there are more aspects of the direction KSA is taking that are frankly disturbing.

  5. greenshirt

    greenshirt Member

    how about we follow and encourage the shariah to be implicated the correct way, and not go into extremes that are unislamic, such as what you have said above.
  6. Abu Abdallah al-Bulghari

    Abu Abdallah al-Bulghari <A HREF="showthread.php?t=70991"></A>

    You missed two of my points completely:

    1. I was talking about BBC seeing only dirt. Your comments are missing this point.

    2. (a) Khulafa can suspend or increase the punishment for Hudd crimes. (b) I did not say there is no Qadhi on the spot. (c) I admit exaggeration, but my point was not what exactly what would happen, my point was that the government should crack down on all types of behavior like this, Talibaan style.
  7. Ibn Adam

    Ibn Adam Jū yoku sei gō

    But that's the nature of news irrespective of the country that it's reported from.

    When was the last time you turned on the BBC and heard the news anchor say?

    "Tonight's headlines:

    London man returns home to find his house hasn't been broken into.

    Thousands of people still alive and well all around the country.

    Majority of children in the UK have never suffered any form of abuse."​

    There's much that the government should do, which I think we can agree upon. The news report was merely conveying the fact that the society is not idyllic and that is true.

    Regarding the Taliban analogy then I'd disagree. We shouldn't just eradicate the symptoms of disease, we should treat the causes.

    Ask yourself why do the youth run around like salivating wolves when they see the opposite sex here?

    A large part of it is because the "culture" over here places unaffordably high mahr rates on marriage and there is, I'm sorry to say, tribalism in who you can or can't marry (Oh, he doesn't have a tribe you can't marry him).

    So imagine you're a Saudi youth and you're looking at working until your 35 to be able to afford the wedding ceremony, mahr, car, house, maid and driver that your potential bride's family is requiring upfront; and you've got hormones running through on overdrive. Of course some of them are going astray and they're not just going astray with the opposite sex some are also going astray with their own.

    Is the solution running through the streets whipping people to ensure marriage is made easy for the young or is it educating the people to prefer the Sunnah over their culture?

    Even when you speak to some of the scholars here you here statements like "In these days you cannot deal with the people harshly because they'll run from the knowledge."

    Allahu a'lam
  8. WM

    WM <A HREF="showthread.php?t=70991"></A>


    Bro Ibn Adam, is it *really* a battle between secularism and Islam, or is it a battle between the pious and 'reformists' etc? I'm assuming there are a zillion distinct gradations in the debate- surely out-and-out secularism is very, very rare?
  9. Idriss

    Idriss New Member

    Salaams I think the trend is to follow what they think the punters want’ people are not bothered about the effects of sin’ just the sell’ I have been to these malls in Jeddah and personally I feel they are much the same as the ones here in my home town in blighty’ but regardless people have chosen to build just as they have built around the sacred house’ the price of all things has been to drop Islamic shariah for new government regulations adopted those in charge of planning have not heeded the advice from the people of knowledge’ the secularist that promote business and enterprise’ have no considerations for the effects of this growth for instance all the steel imported to build in Saudi is from Germany on a buy now pay latter scheme’ the blessings of hajj and omarah have been sold and packaged in a “dream holiday type scenario’ the price of everything has doubled and tripled for the seeker of Allah’s pleasure the peak periods night prayers Ramadan’ the hajj’ we are watching a corruption of everything that we held as sacred, little honour has been left’ the feelings of charity’ and loving for Allah’s sake have been exploited by the greedy and the selfish imposters who daily act the role of the lost and impoverished’ Mecca seems to be a magnet for everything good and bad’ money has taken over people to such an extent that you can often feel that is the main stay of my trip to Saudi to be fleeced’ the heart can be heavy like lead at the decline and the memory of how things were!
  10. Ibn Adam

    Ibn Adam Jū yoku sei gō

    Actually "reformists" or "revisionists" would be a better term but there is certainly an element that'd prefer Islamic law not to be a reference point in many areas of society.
  11. Abu Abdallah al-Bulghari

    Abu Abdallah al-Bulghari <A HREF="showthread.php?t=70991"></A>

    There are plenty of families that do not require that exorbitant Mahrs.

    Besides it's Sunnah to marry widows and orphans.
  12. Die for Allah

    Die for Allah TIOCFAIDH AR LA

    Lol, nice one akh

    More headlines

    Bong !

    Waziri came home from work late today


    Wife was asleep so he had to cook his own dinner


    Then he sat down to his computer


  13. walid

    walid New Member

    Thanks br. idriss my experience of hajj was the same i got ripped off twice by the shop keepers in mecca and the local arabs are so rude and racist. It is just a business now.
  14. Abu Maryam PK

    Abu Maryam PK New Member

    ibn adam u have certainly been looking around!
  15. Ibn Adam

    Ibn Adam Jū yoku sei gō

    :) I hope you don't get into trouble for broadcasting that there wasn't any dinner waiting for you to the four corners of the Earth.
  16. Ibn Adam

    Ibn Adam Jū yoku sei gō

    Akhi, I don't think you need to even look for it, it happens right in front of your eyes. Are you disagreeing that such things go on bro?

    Also, I'm a teacher and I have teacher friends from various institutes and in this role you are in a front row seat to witness and hear about the condition of the youth.

    Pregnancy scares, pornography distributed and sold between kids, homosexual leanings, mobile phones filled with filth, boyfriends/girlfriends, etc.

    Plus, I have kids and so I go to places like fun fairs and you openly see the groups of youth hanging around and stealing quick conversations with the opposite sex hoping that the guards don't see them.

    Just as a test if you're ever in a mall for shopping, in particular in a food court area or a fun fair, change your bluetooth phone name to that of a sister's (for example, call your phone Fatima17) and then tell me how many times the youth in the area tried to connect to your phone.

    The weekends are a hot spot for the youth to drive around aimlessly. Tomorrow night in particular will be bad because it's the last day of examinations throughout the kingdom. The malls, fun fairs and Corniche areas will be packed out in celebration.

    It's not even just youth that go out looking for "things" some have them closer to home. How many stories of boys and there maids or girls and their drivers do we hear? And the advance can come from either side of the employer/employee relationship.

    Plus there's always those that seek to go out of the Kingdom for their filth and hop across the water to Bahrain for the weekend.

    I know someone who was offered pornography in a shop in KSA. He'd felt that the selection of DVDs was poor and asked the guy "I've seen all these, haven't you got anymore?"

    The shop keeper mistook his question as a request for under-the-counter selection and asked him "Do you like comedy?" "Yes", he said.

    Then the shopkeeper went to a hidden shelf and pulled out 20 or so adult DVDs.

    "What the...?!?! That's not comedy!" "Yes, it's erotic comedy. You're not interested?" "No!!!"

    I'm certainly not saying everyone is in to all these things but the problems do exist, they are known and they need to be addressed.
  17. Abu Abdallah al-Bulghari

    Abu Abdallah al-Bulghari <A HREF="showthread.php?t=70991"></A>

    Am I the only one who gets overwhelmed by the sheer amount (not by just incidents) of backbiting on islamicawakening forums?
  18. Ibn Adam

    Ibn Adam Jū yoku sei gō

    I'm confused as to the connection between your comment and this thread.

    Are you suggesting that there's back biting in this thread, if so please can you explain what your definition of back biting?
  19. Abu Maryam PK

    Abu Maryam PK New Member

    not at all. just pulling ur gora leg
  20. Abu Maryam PK

    Abu Maryam PK New Member

    and i have seen them only once in 3 and a half.
    See i told u , u r more observing

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