taliban - deobandi manhaj

Discussion in 'Global Affairs' started by goliathvsdavid, Jan 5, 2010.

  1. goliathvsdavid

    goliathvsdavid <A HREF="showthread.php?t=70991"></A>

    Assalamu alaykum

    I was wondering, do you brothers at islamicawakening have an issue with the fact that taliban are deobandi in manhaj? This directly implies that they are maturidi in aqeedah so do you consider it permissable to support maturidi aqeedah and do you think it deviant?

    Please give clarification on this issue and let me know your thoughts plus the evidences, fatawa, narrations to support your view etc.

    Jazak allahu khair
  2. Firebrand Mullah

    Firebrand Mullah Hanfist Salfist Humblist

    The question is a flawed question. Since the Islamic Emirates of Afghanistan consists of Muslims of various creeds and methodologies. There are Maturidi's, Ash'ari's And Athaari's among them. Some of the prominent figures of the movement are known for their Salafi manhaj. Yet others are known to be students of Haqqaniyah Darul Uloom.

    Furthermore, various Muslim groups and movements have pledged allegiance to the Amirul Mo'mineen Mullah Mohammed Omar Mujahid.

    It is very wrong to assume that there is a unitary manhaj among the "Taliban". Because in fact, in Afghanistan & Tribal Area people known as the Taliban are very diverse.

    The only uniting factor among these groups is that they have pleaded allegiance to Amirul Mu'mineen.

    However, there are other groups known as Taliban who are in fact not related to the movement in specific sense. Like Hizb Islami Afghanistan lead by Gulbuddin Hekmatyar. His movement does cooperate with the Islamic Emirates on some grounds. And they share the same goal of driving out the invaders and infidels.

    But Hizb Islami considers itself on equal footing with the Islamic Emirates on political grounds. And they consider themselves as competitors for power and dominance.

    Hizb Islami's manhaj is also pretty vague. It consists of various groups.
  3. y-mughal

    y-mughal Muslim

    Are the Maturidis Kuffar? At least they recognise the apostasy of their ruler and the obligation of Jihad to be waged against him and his helpers unlike you Murjiah. Your likes would have probably been happy with Fatimid and Crusader rule as Salahudeen was a deviant Ash'ari who could not be allied with and supported. What's next? When your Muslim neighbour is being jumped and beaten by a few Kaafir thugs your not gonna help him because he's going to read Sharh Al-Aqa'id An-Nasafiyyah when he gets home that night?
  4. goliathvsdavid

    goliathvsdavid <A HREF="showthread.php?t=70991"></A>

    akhi, where are your manners?

    I asked a simple question. I am trying to ascertain the truth for the sake of Allah. I have not even been muslim for that long. I am asking sincere questions for a better understanding of the situation and is your rant supposed to constitute as Dawah? Is that your call to Jihad? Did the prophet SAW EVER call to anything in this manner? May Allah guide you.

    I wish to discuss this further, and as you can tell, I am not looking to get insulted by pathetic wannabe jihadi's who claim jihad from the comfort of their computer but dont have the bottle to go out and fight. I wish to actually discuss and look at the Islamic aspects of the situation and look at the proofs and evidences and decide for myself what the haqh is and what is pleasing to Allah and what should I follow.

    Now, to the issue at hand.

    Is it permissable to have an Islamic State and Army all upon different minhaj and aqeedah? What is the basis of your teachings, where is the daleel from the qur'an and sunnah and which of the salaf us saliheen understood jihad in this way (that you can unite upon anything).

    Also where is the evidence that saluhideen was an Ashari (the one worthwhile point that you made).

    Jihad is not a rash decision you make because someone insults you, you have to come to the decision based on the understanding that it will attain you jannah as a shaheed bi ithnillah.

    What if the Taliban make dua to the prophet SAW? Wouldnt that be shirk Akbar? Wouldnt that expel them from Islam? Would you still consider them mujahideen? Should we call ahmadiyah or submitters or nation of Islam to jihad also before we establish the call to tawheed and the sunnah?

    Dont you think you are making politics the essence of Islam rather than one aspect?

    Shouldnt the emir ul mu'mineen be upon haqh and make sure all of his followers are upon haqh? Shouldnt he correct their aqeedah? WOuldnt jihad upon incorrect aqeedah be devoid of blessing?
  5. Ibn malik

    Ibn malik New Member

    Its silly to claim Taliban are 'salafis'. They are clearly not. And no, no Muslim with a brain will think twice about helping another Muslim who he differs with, except maybe a salafi.
  6. Muslim4life101

    Muslim4life101 New Member

    It is beyond stupidy to claim that taliban have salafis amongst their ranks. By Allah thats a lie. They are not salafis,or khawarij.
    Allah bless taliban mujahids,they are ahlesunah wal jama'ah.

    The problem with alqeada or any salafi groups,is that they only fight muslims. Iam sure after taliban defeats the crusaders, these khawarij will lable taliban as mushrikiin or apostates!
    Some of the talafis said once that the shariah law installed by hamas was false because of their aqidah!!!!
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2010
  7. TruthSoldier

    TruthSoldier New Member

    Assalaam 'Alaykum Akhi
    Yeah bro, I think I may have just what you need. This book is the exact topic your looking for. It should be attached below. I suggest everyone here read it to clear up any misconceptions.

    Welcome to Islam Bro! May Allah increase you in knowledge and wisdom inshaAllah. May he keep you firm upon the Truth ameen!

    Let me know if you have any other questions/queries.

    Assalaam 'Alaykum

    Attached Files:

  8. Firebrand Mullah

    Firebrand Mullah Hanfist Salfist Humblist

    REALLY? Are you saying that Shaykh Mohmmed Yasir Wardak, graduated from Madina University who until mid 2009 was the minister of Culture & Information of the Islamic Emirates of Afghanistan is Deobandi???? :D

    And that is just to name a single high ranking official..
  9. Firebrand Mullah

    Firebrand Mullah Hanfist Salfist Humblist

    The scholars in Afghanistan who encourage people to fight the invaders tell people that whenever non-muslims invade Muslim lands one should join the ranks of the Muslim leader who is leading the resistance. Regardless of his aqeedah.

    And yes. Salahudeen Ayubi was Ash'ari. It is common knowledge.
  10. goliathvsdavid

    goliathvsdavid <A HREF="showthread.php?t=70991"></A>

    Jazakum allahu khairun for your responses

    Inshallah I will take a look at the e book.

    With regards to unification, does this include those upon kufr? Would one upon kufr still be supported as a mujahid?

    Do any of the taliban make dua to the prophet saw as an intercessor? Would you still support him as a mujahid?
  11. drkjke

    drkjke Well-Known Member

    your information is totally flawed
    dont you know that it was alqaeda which is hard salafi group who helped establish talibans rule over afghanistan.infact osama spent bellions fromhis wealth to establish and help talibans rule
    i do not know where do these confusion creating people come from
    as nowdays kufars are busy trying to create differences between alqaeda and taliban which never did exist and will never exist inshalah
    as both of their goal is same,to establish islamic khilafat
    and both of them have almost same aqeeda which is true islam,no innovations they practice,nor bidaats,just pure islam like that was in prophets era (peace be upon him)
    anyway these confusions and propogandas will never stop juhad inshalah,as our prophet (peeace be upon him) said in a hadeeth that jihad will continue till end of time
    and who is doing jihad now?alqaeda and taliban or kufars and munafiqeen who are licking the boots of kufars.any person with some brain can see that
  12. Apathy

    Apathy <A HREF="showthread.php?t=70991"></A>

    Muhammad Yasir is hanafi and particular deobandi. He is definitely not salafi. Mullah omar never allowed salafis to have a solid grounding anywhere in his movement. Only place that salafis probably did have some foundation was in kunar. Most of the afghans who claim salafi still live there.

    Anyways, what matters is if a person has iman. It does not matter what your aqidah is, as long as you have iman than we are brothers and rights are to be fulfilled with each other.

    People who always bray about aqidah do not know that it is iman what will get you to jannah, not aqidah.
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2010
  13. Apathy

    Apathy <A HREF="showthread.php?t=70991"></A>

    Al qaida did not help taliban to establish rule, taliban were already in power and doing fine from the support that was coming from pakistan. Taliban is al qaidas life line. Let us not get things twisted. Osama gave bayah to mullah omar, and it was upon mullah omars consent that he allowed al qaida members to stay in afghanistan. He could of had them all kicked out but he did not. Since he is a true follower of the prophet [saw].

    He did not allow anyone to start sectarian divisions amongst his people. If they tried they were quickly subdued.
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2010
  14. goliathvsdavid

    goliathvsdavid <A HREF="showthread.php?t=70991"></A>

    you say that the taliban and al qeda are upon the aqeedah of the prophet saw so please clarify what aqeedah that would be? Where would they say allah is?

    Iman and aqeedah are very interlinked. Which of the salaf ever said aqeedah did not matter and which of the salaf said unite upon anything?

    for example, look at the situations that occurred with the shia, and theahlus sunnah, and the jahmiyah and mutazillah. aqeedah was definitely important to the salaf
  15. Die for Allah

    Die for Allah TIOCFAIDH AR LA

    It is not from the sunnah to enquire and be suspicious of Muslims and to delve into what their aqeeda is by asking them questions.

    As long as someone or a group of people say LA ILLAH HA ILULLAH and pray facing the Muslims Qibla and slaughter as Mslims slaughter we consider them as Muslims upon the sunnah unless we come to know of somethng to the contrary.

    The default ruling is that they are Muslims upon the correct aqeeda and not the other way around.

    If Im not mistaken it is a sifat of the khawarij to first question people in order to ascertain what they are upon before we trust that they are upon the haq.

    It is related that Anas ibn Malik said that the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, said, "I am commanded to fight people until they say, 'There is no god but Allah.' When they say this and pray our prayer, face our qibla and slaughter as we slaughter, then their blood and property are forbidden to us unless we have a right to them and their reckoning is up to Allah." sahi Bukhari
  16. goliathvsdavid

    goliathvsdavid <A HREF="showthread.php?t=70991"></A>

    did the prophet saw not test the aqeedah of the slave girl when he asked her where is allah?

    Where is your evidence regarding the khawarij?

    this is not just about repelling the invader. If there is going to be an islamic state afterwards it has to be on the correct aqeedah. Otherwise I would not support it.are you aware of the brutality faced by the four imams for opposing falsing understanding of the deen? Imam malik ra got beaten so badly his arm was busted because he refused to endorse state fatawa.

    Imam ahmed ra went into hiding for 5 years because the ruler was mutazilah and wanted imam ahmed to endorse this false aqeedah.

    There seems to be very little knowledge in this forum. You all know about the latest political situations and know nothing of islam. You don't even have the bottle to actually go out and fight jihad, which raises the question, what the hell is a 'cyber jihadi' good for? Why don't you grow some balls and actually go out and fight the kuffar if your so sure its all well and good out there. Me, inshallah I intend to research and study the situation deen wise and the reality of the situation but its obvious I can't get the information I need here
  17. havocas

    havocas New Member

    but you know very well the taliban are on a false aqida which the Prophet and his Companions were not upon.

    the brailwees say the kalima, can you say they are on the aqida of Muhammed?
  18. Firebrand Mullah

    Firebrand Mullah Hanfist Salfist Humblist

    If you are so knowledgable, tell me! Have you asked Amirul Mu'mineen where is Allah? And did he give you the wrong answer?

    The reason why Saudi Salafis are gossiping and back-biting the Afghans is not because they sincerely believe the Afghans have the wrong aqeeeda. The real reason is that Saudi Arabia is too deeply entangled in to American economic and military hegomony.

    Those Salafi scholars and shuyukh who go around telling people that Aqeeda is the most important thing get their wages from CIA.

    They have allegiance with the Kuffar and opressors of Muslims. And they have hatred and are harsh towards their fellow Muslims.

    You take your religion from people who are serving the Americans. And you go around saying there is little knowledge on this forum?

    What do you actually know? You attended a few halaqa's where some Salafi imam goes and trashing 90% of the Muslims and saying all of them are under threat of hell-fire.

    And now you think you know anything better than us?

    Let me ask you, aside from a few stories told usually during aqeeda classes, what specific knowledge do you have about the Muslims?

    Did you know that the absolute majority of Muslims through-out the history adhered to the wrong aqeeda? Did you know most Muslim leaders were in strict sense upon falsehood?

    Did you know that the characteristics of Ahlul Sunnah Wa'al Jam'ah is very hard to detect among Muslims? Did you know the most strict intepretation of all the rules and requirements for Muslims have been neglected practically by all rulers and their subjects through-out the history?

    Wake up! Aside from your aqeeda classes, invest some time and effort in studying the history of Muslims.

    Let me ask you something. Why is that the Saudi Salafis thought it is okay to join the mujahedeen in Afghanistan during the Russian invasion. But when The Americans invaded Afghanistan suddenly the Salafis started talking about aqeeda? Was the Aqeeda of Afghans anything other than what it is now?

    No. The only difference is, back in the 80's Afghans were fighting Russians. And now they are fighting Americans.

    And since the Saudi Salafi movement is a tool to subdue and control the masses it will be used whenever it is useful to American foreign policy.

    Now hurry up to the library and borrow some history books to get your reality check.
  19. Firebrand Mullah

    Firebrand Mullah Hanfist Salfist Humblist

    How do you know? Have you asked Amirul Mo'mineen yourself what his aqeeda is?
  20. Firebrand Mullah

    Firebrand Mullah Hanfist Salfist Humblist

    Which of the Salaf was in allegiance with Rome? Which of the Salaf was the spokesperson for American foreign policy? Which of the Salaf was on pay-roll of tyrants and opressors? Which of the salaf was backbiting fellow Muslims? Which of the Salaf categorized all other Muslims in to groups and sects with or without their consent? Which of the Salaf promoted hatred for his fellow Muslims? Which of the Salaf was arrogant and boasted about his own knowledge, while trashing others? Which of the Salaf was a coward who could not face the enemy of Muslims and instead chose to go around and insult his fellow Muslims?

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