The Big Debate - Sheikh Assim Al-Hakeem Versus Dr.Bilal Philips

Discussion in 'Arts and Culture' started by Abu Ibraaheem, Aug 15, 2011.

  1. Abu Ibraaheem

    Abu Ibraaheem Active Member

    Interesting debate on whether or not abandoning the prayer takes you out of the fold of Islam
  2. ahmad10

    ahmad10 حسبي الله ونعم الوكيل

    I agree with what was said by Imam 'Abdullah ibn al-Mubaarak (rh)

    In another incident, it was said to him ('Abdullah ibn al-Mubarak): 'Shayban accuses you of being a Murji'ah.' He said, 'Shayban has lied for I oppose the Murji'ah in 3 matters: They claim that Iman (faith) is only in words and not deeds, but I say that it's in words and deeds. They claim that the one who abandons prayers is not a disbeliever but I say that he is a disbeliever. They claim that Iman does not increase or decrease and I say that it does increase and decrease.' Al-Tabaqat al-Kubra

    But I also agree that we should not make Takfeer just because we assume that someone is not praying. They may be doing so in private, etc. It is not our responsibility to do that. However in principle between the one who abandons Salah, He between himself and his Lord - is a kafir.

    Taken from "Tazimu qadru salat" of Marwazi.
    978 - حدثنا محمد بن يحيى قال حدثنا أبو النعمان قال حدثنا حماد بن زيد عن أيوب قال ترك الصلاة كفر لا يختلف فيه
    "It was reported to me by Muhammad ibn Yahya, which said: reported to me Abu Noman, which said: reported to me Khammad ibn Zayd that Ayub (as-Sakhtiyani) said: "Abandonment of salat is disbelief, there is no disagreement in it"​
    And it was reported that Abdullah ibn Mubarak said:
    من ترك الصلاة متعمدا من غير علة حتى أدخل وقتا في وقت فهو كافر
    "Who abandoned salat deliberately without (any) problem till time (of one salat) would enter to time (of other) is disbeliever​
    982 - حدثنا إبراهيم الجوزجانى قال حدثنى إسماعيل بن سعيد قال سألت أحمد بن حنبل عن من ترك الصلاة متعمدا قال لا يكفر أحد بذنب إلا تارك الصلاة عمدا فإن ترك صلاة إلى أن يدخل وقت صلاة أخرى يستتاب ثلاثا
    Imam Ahmad said: No one is making disbelief by sin other that deliberately abandonment of salat. And if (someone) abandoned salat till time of other one enters, he should be asked to repent 3 times".

    From the Multaqa

    Last edited: Aug 15, 2011
  3. Abdullah11

    Abdullah11 A wannabe neologist

    Did he say A'isha RadiyAllah 3anhu?
  4. umm hafsa

    umm hafsa Anti-Free mixing

    Sheikh Assim Al-Hakeem is alot more convincing on this matter, by far.
  5. Mahyar

    Mahyar New Member

    Assalamo alaykum.. I didn't re watch this video because I have already seen it once.

    I just want to confirm with those of you who watched it. Was it the opinion of Imam Al Shafa'ee (raH) That leaving the prayer does not make you a kaffer?
    Is that not to be mixed up with The shafa'eeya on "making up prayers" which from what I understand is well known in the shafa'ee madhab. (that one should make up prayers when missed them)

    Also was shaykh asim of the view that if the adhan goes off, and your making wudhu and your friend says, I don't feel like praying.
    He is to be executed? For being a murtad? (Unless he accepts the dawah/repents)

    But more specifically I want to know the view of imam shafi'i coz I heard in this video that Bilal took his view (if im not mistaken) , and the shafi'is believe in making up prayers. (Correct me once again if I'm wrong) thanks

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