Time is Allah

Discussion in 'Islamic Theology and Ideology' started by Sawtul Islam, Feb 16, 2008.

  1. Sawtul Islam

    Sawtul Islam <A HREF="showthread.php?t=70991"></A>

    Bismillahirrahmaanerraheem

    CLEAR PROOF that Time is Allah.

    Abu Hurayra reported: I heard Allah's Messenger (pbuh) saying: Allah the exalted and Glorious said: The son of Adam abuses Time, whereas I am The Time. In my hand are the days and nights.

    (Source: Sahih Muslim)

    As you can see, the Hadith clearly states that the Days and Nights are in the hands of Allah, but does Not say that TIME is in the hands of Allah but says ALLAH IS TIME.

    Of coruse the night and day are controled by Time, without Time the day would not turn into night and the night would not turn into day.

    The assumption that most (or all) scholars make is they think "night and day" is the SAME as Time, so they think the Hadith says ALLAH IS TIME and OWNS TIME at the same time.

    But this is not the case as the Hadith never says Allah owns Time but that He is Time, and that He controls the night and day and of course night and day are in the hands of Time and so Time is Allah.

    The Arabic clearly says that Allah says: "Ana-d-Dahr" I AM TIME. There is no room for interpretation.

    Here is another Hadith from Sahih Muslim:

    Abu Hurayra narrated that Allah's Messenger (pbuh) had said: No one of you should abuse the Time for Allah is the Time, and no one of you should call the grape a Al-Karm, for the Karm is a Muslim man.

    This Hadith is in the same chapter, the chapter of using CORRECT WORDS.

    The Prophet (pbuh) is saying that the word KARM is not really the correct word for grape but that its real meaning is a Muslim man.

    Wa'il narrated the Prophet (pbuh) saying: Do not say KARM but say al-Habla(to grapes)
    (Sahih Muslim)

    Now it is clear and obvious that the Prophet (pbuh) did not mean that Muslims OWN Karm, he meant that the word Karm really means a Muslim man and that it is the correct meaning of the word Karm.

    But in the same Hadith that the Prophet (pbuh) said TIME IS ALLAH he also said KARM IS A MUSLIM MAN, so if you think TIME IS ALLAH means Allah controls Time, then it doesnt make any sense because then it would mean that the Prophet (pbuh) was saying that Muslims control Karm so you shouldnt say Karm!!!! <?><?>!!??! It is VERY CLEAR that he did not mean this.

    So clearly when he said TIME IS ALLAH, he meant TIME IS ALLAH and did not mean that He simply controls or owns Time.

    Wassalam
     
  2. AbuQudama

    AbuQudama New Member

    time is a created thing, ur post implies Allah and time are one and the same.
     
  3. Um Abdullah M.

    Um Abdullah M. Nothing

    bro AbuQudama that is what sawt believes, that time is Allah , exalted be Allah from what he says !

    sawt worships time, that is his ilah, authubillah.
     
  4. abu hafs

    abu hafs Anti-Shirk

    And they say: "What is there but our life in this world? We shall die and we live, and nothing but time can destroy us." But of that they have no knowledge: they merely conjecture: [45:24]

    According to this belief the mushriks were right , but Qur'an dismisses it as conjecture
     
  5. Sawtul Islam

    Sawtul Islam <A HREF="showthread.php?t=70991"></A>

    How do you know that Time is created?

    Please bring some evidence from Qur'an or Sunnah.

    In fact logically speaking Time cant be created because you would have to say that there was a time when Time didnt exist!!!! This is impossible so Time must have ALWAYS existed. You cant say "before Time was created" because BEFORE is a part of Time so there is no "before Time" so Time must always have been in existance.
     
  6. kamran

    kamran New Member

    Assalam o alaikum,

    May Allah protect us from vain talk.

    May Allah protect us from useless arguments.

    For starters, when one of the scholars of Ummah made a mistake similar to Sawt ul Islam, he did not engage in negative theology as Sawt ul Islam and some others tend to fiddle with at times.

    And those who criticised him did not say that the scholar (may Allah have mercy on him) worshipped time or that time was his ilah. They merely said that he made a grave error.

    May Allah ease your distress and help you realise that such vain arguments would always be obstacles in your realisation of Allah. They won't get you closer to Him. They won't inspire faith. They won't help you contribute towards your growth as a believer.

    I find it hard to accept that why sane people engage in such rhetoric. Our job is easier: We are not supposed to raise a generation from scratch. We only have to follow a known path. We are not even expected to reach a defined target unlike Nabi SWS's generation. And yet, instead of rejoicing the blessings of Allah, we end up wasting our lives like this.

    I wonder why you missed out on the first part: Do not abuse time. I wonder why didn't you ponder over this. When does a person actually abuse time? When does someone blame time for say, his failure or whatever? What does it reflect about his Iman in Predestination?

    Sheikh Saleh al-Munajjid did not commit that blunder and hence Allah enabled him to realise the importance of being grateful.

    http://www.islamqa.com/index.php?ref=9571&ln=eng&txt

    May Allah protect us from all that pleases Shaytan.

    May Allah, The Incomparable, The One Who encompasses everything, protect us from turning Him into something measurable with cheap stopwatches.

    May Allah protect our tongues, our hands, in fact everything from all fitnah for none of us would stand a chance against His Justice.

    I do not want Allah to deal with me with His Justice. I just want Him to forgive me.

    I wish I could make all of you realise this.

    Kamran
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2008
  7. Sawtul Islam

    Sawtul Islam <A HREF="showthread.php?t=70991"></A>

    As I explained on the other thread http://forums.islamicawakening.com/showthread.php?t=7796 a couple of times, Allah is not JUST Time, just as Allah is not JUST Rahman, though He is Rahman.
    So for example someone who believes that God is for just merciful and nothing else would disbelieve in Hell and thus would become a disbeliever by only believing in "the Merciful" but not in any other names and attributes of Allah.

    And if you read the Ayah in context you see that Allah mentions those who disbelieve in Allah and the hereafter and say that the passing of time simply makes them die (in other words they believe in Time but not in Allah).
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2008
  8. Daniel

    Daniel TAFKA BM

    Sawt, what do you even know or understand of the concept of time? Did you ever consider the notion that time has no meaning before the creation of the universe and that it is a property of the physical universe?
     
  9. Sawtul Islam

    Sawtul Islam <A HREF="showthread.php?t=70991"></A>

    how do you "know" this?
     
  10. Daniel

    Daniel TAFKA BM

    Did I claim knowledge? I asked a question, not made an assertion. Why run from the question?
     
  11. Sawtul Islam

    Sawtul Islam <A HREF="showthread.php?t=70991"></A>

    I remember some time ago someone posted that a scholar (I think Imam Nawawi) said that the Arabs of Jahiliyyah were two groups, one who believed in Time and the other believed in Allah and disbelieved in Time.

    The Prophet (saw) said Time is Allah. So this means they were both wrong, and so the verse quoted above seems to refer to those pagan Arabs who believed in Time but not Allah, and the other group worshipped Allah and cursed time, so the Prophet (saw) said: "Allah the exalted and Glorious said: The son of Adam abuses Time, whereas I am The Time. In my hand are the days and nights"
     
  12. Um Abdullah M.

    Um Abdullah M. Nothing

    wa alaykum assalam

    we had a discussion about this issue with sawt over a month ago, a thread that was over 100 posts long, we got him evidence, explained to him what the hadiths mean and all kinds of arguments, and he still spreads this kufr around.

    and he does not accept even the sahabah's understanding of the text and says that they are not infallible so they made a mistake, and that his understanding is the correct one !
     
  13. Sawtul Islam

    Sawtul Islam <A HREF="showthread.php?t=70991"></A>

    First of all you guys quoted a few of the Tabi'een, not the Sahabah. I did say that the Sahabah are not infallible but I didnt do so in order to refute anyone since no one quoted a Sahih narration from a Sahabah saying that Allah is "ONLY ABOVE".

    And on that thread I responded to, refuted and explained away every single point and when the thread became very long people started asking the same questions over and over and yet I continued to respond.
     
  14. Um Abdullah M.

    Um Abdullah M. Nothing

    I asked you get it me one sahabi who had the belief that time is Allah and u didn't !
    how about u get us a statement by a righteous tabi'i or any sunni Imam who had the belief u have?

    actually I haven't come across any Muslim or heard any shaikh (even from deviant sects) who has said that time is Allah !
    exalted be He

    so are u the only Muslim who is upon the haqq??!!
     
  15. Um Abdullah M.

    Um Abdullah M. Nothing

    u responded with YOUR OWN understanding of the hadith.
    no scholar of ahl assunnah, past or present, who had that same understanding of urs.
     
  16. أبو نافع

    أبو نافع Formerly - Abu_Abdallah

    Sister, there are scholars who said this. In fact, there are Du'as from some of the Salaf who called upon Time and named Allah, the Exalted, Dahr! As a Name!

    Yet, I'm pretty sure that this Sawtul Kufr is unaware of this. Similarly, he can not use the Qur'an and the Sunnah in his favor. Cause if he really were right, he could at least make a good case..

    And how do you make a good case? By being sincere, learning the proofs from the Qur'an and the Sunnah, reviewing the opinions of the Salaf who were most knowledgeable of Allah's Message, etc.

    As for this **** he will never have any one side to his way, since he has nothing but an Aya here and a Hadith there and poures into it his Hawa'.. And than boldly claims I refuted, none refuted me..

    SubhanAllah!

    PS: Sawtul Kufr, shall I ask a brother to help you out? I mean: at least, he can do you a favor by helping you in making the case that Allah is Time. I'm sure, many here would say: Hmmm, OMG, he might be right! And if you do not want to be helped, spare us your Hawaa..
     
  17. Sawtul Islam

    Sawtul Islam <A HREF="showthread.php?t=70991"></A>

    I asked you to get one Sahabi who believed Allah is only above the sky and you didnt either.

    The fact that the Prophet (saw) said it and the Sahabah narrated it is proof enough that the Sahabah believed it.


    If I didnt make a good case then please refute my first post on this thread. Go ahead, no one has yet even given it a try.

    Do you even know what you're saying?

    Ok now Im totally confused. Are you defending me or arguing against me???
     
  18. Abu Treika

    Abu Treika Magoo

    what an excellent post masha'allah, may allah reward you bro kamran for your intelligent posts
     
  19. أبو نافع

    أبو نافع Formerly - Abu_Abdallah

    Your an idiot.

    If you had a case, you would not ask such questions. Its hilarious to see you surprised abou this.. I feel sorry for your confusement..

    You should know the facts and opinions beforehand, before speaking about something you have no clue about.

    PS: its Abu Abdallah, not Um..
     
  20. Sawtul Islam

    Sawtul Islam <A HREF="showthread.php?t=70991"></A>

    How does this part of the Hadith change anything??

    To say that "Time is Allah means Allah controls Time" is not right because that would be like saying "The Sun is Allah" since Allah controls the Sun.

    Obviously it's forbidden to say that Allah is the Sun so too if Allah wasn't Time then the Hadith would not have said that He is.

    The only question I asked on this thread was from you, I asked you which side you were on.

    Yeah I dont know how that happened.
     

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