Where in the world is Yajuj and Majuj?

Discussion in 'Islamic Theology and Ideology' started by Abubakr1, Jul 14, 2010.

  1. Abubakr1

    Abubakr1 New Member

    Asalamun alykum wa wr


    Ever since after the death of our beloved (sallahu alihi wasalam).Muslims tried to look for the wall of Yajuj and majuj.For instance,a khalifah during 50 hijri or after wallahu alam,He sent an army to look for the wall of yajuj and majuj.when they came back they told the khalifah that they founded it in ruins.Now my question is how is that possible?We dont have any saheed hadith from the prophet (SAW) telling us where the wall is...

    Also,it is recorded in the books of history that the sahabas knew as well where the wall of yajuj n majuj was..now wallahu alam how accurate the information may be but..it just amazed me and I found it interesting.Does anyone have something to say about this? Jazzak Allah Khair:eek:
     
  2. Wa alaykas-Salaam,

    Sources? Authenticity?
     
  3. Abubakr1

    Abubakr1 New Member

    sources .... authenticity .....?
     
  4. abuhannah

    abuhannah Well-Known Member

    Thats what he is asking you i,.e do you have a source,link etc for what you stated in your first post ''a khalifah during 50 hijri or after''etc.etc...
     
  5. Yes brother- Personally, I'd be happy to comment, however after hearing which 'book of history' the information that you presented is in, and which 'khalif' dispatched an army to find the wall of the Ya'juj and Ma'juj.

    Often times I find that unverifiable or false reports are not worth commenting on, that's why I ask...
     
  6. Butterknife al-Batil

    Butterknife al-Batil <A HREF="showthread.php?t=70991"></A>

    This is all I found

    Ibn Jarir Tabari and Ibn Kathir have recorded the event, and Yaqut al-Hamawi has mentioned it in his Mujam-ul-Buldan that: when after the conquest of Azerbaijan, Umar sent Suraqah bin `Amr, in 22 A.H. (643CE) on an expedition to Derbent, the latter appointed `Abdur Rahman bin Rabi`ah as the chief of his vanguard.

    When 'Abdur Rehman entered Armenia, the ruler Shehrbaz surrendered without fighting. Then when `Abdur Rehman wanted to advance towards Derbent, Shehrbaz informed him that he had already gathered full information about the wall built by Dhul-Qarnain, through a man, who could supply all the necessary details and then the man was actually presented before `Abdur Rehman. (Tabari, Vol. III, pp. 235-239; Al-Bidayah wan-Nihayah, Vol. VII, pp. 122-125, and Mu'jam-ul-Buldan, under Bab-ul-Abwab: Derbent
     
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2010
  7. ^I checked the quotes from Ibn Kathir and Mu'jam al-Buldan.

    Ibn Kathir does mention the account of Abd ar-Rahman bin Rabi'ah and says that he saw 'the gate of gates' and described it as copper and brass, however Ibn Kathir also reports after that about the people of the area who when asked if they saw the Ya'juj and Ma'juj responded yes and described them as a hands span tall or so.

    Mu'jam ul-Buldan does not mention the part of Dhul Qarnayn but rather mentioned exactly how that gate was built, who it was built by, and who it was built for- none of which as to do with the Ya'juj wal-Ma'juj.

    In both accounts the Turks and the Khazars are mentioned as those the Muslims were fighting at the time, and no doubt I've come across some accounts that claim they are the Ya'juj wal-Ma'juj, however that was weak from what I recollect.

    But the first post seems to take for granted several things that have not panned out from a perusal of the only quotes available provided by brother Saif.

    Namely that Muslims have been loooking for the wall since the time of the Prophet SAWS; and that the Khalifah sent out the army to look for the wall; and that the Companions RA knew where the wall was- all these things seem very presumptuous at this point...
     
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2010
  8. Clutch Cargo

    Clutch Cargo Formerly 'Field Marshall' | just too raw

    This has little to do with anything but years ago I remember one Arab guy I know used to call the Chinese Ya'juj wal-Ma'juj. His reasoning was that these people eat absolutely anything.
     
  9. Now that's funny....But seriously, I believe there may be a weak report proposing that they are the Chinese as well, again in one of the books of Islamic history...
     
  10. justabro

    justabro Salafi (Retd.)

    أين يقع سد يأجوج ومأجوج؟ - ملتقى أهل الحديث

    Al-Sa'di speculated they may be the Chinese or something along those lines. It created quite a bit of controversy at the time. Some mashayikh were upset and King 'Abdul-'Aziz requested that he not discuss the issue lest it kindle fitna so the shaykh agreed. His book on the topic is now recently printed for the first time:

    هل يوجد كتاب عن يأجوج ومأجوج للشيخ السعدي رحمه الله ؟ - ملتقى أهل الحديث
    فوائد من محاضرة((الشيخ عبد الرحمن السعدي كما عرفته)) للشيخ ابن عقيل [الأرشيف] - ملتقى أهل الحديث

    *A few notes: I haven't read al-Sa'di's book, and up until now, I don't agree with the view. Sh. ibn Uthaymin mentioned this view in one of his classes and said it was a possibility (something I'm very skeptical of).

    **Another note: ibn Ashur identified Dhul-Qarnayn in his Tafsir as the Chinese emperor responsible for building the Great Wall of China! Ibn Ashur's Tafsir is a modern masterpiece but this is definitely an error.
     
  11. justabro

    justabro Salafi (Retd.)

    Anyways, I would like to know...

    "Where in the world is Carmen Sandiego?"
     
  12. WM

    WM <A HREF="showthread.php?t=70991"></A>

    lol- I was just about to ask that!
     
  13. abuhannah

    abuhannah Well-Known Member

    That be the haqq right there...nice,lol...
     
  14. Abubakr1

    Abubakr1 New Member

    Invalid session from 1:40 Shaikh Imran hosein talks about it and he mentions that it is also mentioned in the books of tafseer but like I said Wallahu Alam ...And I posted the information because I wanted to know for myself.if it was true or not..,and if anyone had sound knowledge on it. Jazzak Allah khr.
     
  15. Nothing sound on it Akh Abubakr1, and those speakers who present it as certain knowledge really should be more fearful of that and mention the weakness of the reports and their context to the audience, rather they have a responsibility to do so.

    Jazaak Allahu khayraan for the links Akh justabro...
     
  16. Abubakr1

    Abubakr1 New Member

    I remember when I was younger the topic on Yajuj wal majuj was very spoken about.Like the tablighs used to say the yajuj and majuj are tall creatures with big noses..long arms etc.and some said they are turks small turks evil little creatures...EVIL indeed but small Allahu Alam.

    Also, Ibn Kathir said that Dhul Qarnain made tawaf with (Khalil ullah) Ibrahim (AS)..So that says that it was around Ibrahim`s time that Dhul Qarnain build the wall..Wallahu Alam,

    Who is he? Which period of time did he belong to? Regarding this, sayings of 'Ulama' differ. According to Ibn Kathir, his time was the time of Sayyidna Ibrahim (RA), two thousand years before the time of Alexander, the Greek, the Macedonian. Al-Khadir was his minister. Ibn Kathir has also reported from the early righteous elders in al-Bidayah wa an-Nihayah that Dhul-Qarnain went for Hajj traveling on foot. When Sayyidna Ibrahim found out about his arrival, he went out of Makkah to greet him. It is said that Sayyidna Ibrahim (AS) also prayed for him and passed out some good counsel to him. (Al-Bidayah, p. 108, v. 3)[FONT=&quot]<o:p></o:p>[/FONT]

    Tafsir Ibn Kathir reports from Adhraqi that he did Tawaf with Sayyidna Ibrahim and offered sacrifice.
     
  17. Abubakr1

    Abubakr1 New Member

    The wall of Zulqarnain By Shaykh Ahmed Ali

    Many different opinions have been expressed as to the location of the iron wall of Zulqarnain. Having read many books, the best on the subject I came across was Sheikh Hifzur-Rahman's "Stories of the Qur'an" and thus have chosen to share a brief summary of what he has written.

    He writes "The Yajuj Ma'juj caused destruction and blood- shed in a vast area, and because of their oppression many barriers and walls were erected in different times and places by different kings. Four being the most famous:
    1) The Great Wall of China which was built by the Chinese King Fagfor 3460 years after Prophet Adam was put on the Earth.
    2) The wall in central Asia near Bukhara and Tirmidh in a place called Derbent.
    3) The wall in Dagistan Russia also known as Derbent near the Caspian sea.
    4) The wall which is in the westerly direction to the third in the region of the Caucasus.
    Because these walls were built for one purpose and are all situated in the North, it has always been very difficult to determine exactly the wall built by Zulqarnain."

    He further writes, "The biggest out of the four is the great wall of China and nobody is of the opinion that this is the wall built by Zulqarnain as it is in the easterly direction while the Qur'an indicates the wall of Zulqarnain is in the Northerly direction."

    Thus leaving walls 2, 3, and 4.

    He writes, "Historians like Masoodi, Istakhari and Hamawi are of the opinion that the wall of Zulqamain is wall number 3 or 4. Those that have said it is wall number two have confused the issue due to the location of Derbent which is near Bukhara and also in Degistan.''
    He finally writes, ''Out of two, the historians are of the opinion that it is wall 3 or 4, the master of hadith Allama Anwar Shah Kashmiri in his book Aqeeda-tul-Islam holds the opinion that the wall of Zulqarnain is wall number 4, the one in the region of Caucasus.' (Stories of the Qu'ran)

    After this short summary I find myself inclined to Allama Aloosi's opinion I conclude with his words, ''We do not know the location of this wall and it is very probable that great seas and mountains stand between us and the wall, and between Ya'juj Ma'juj and the rest of the world.''
     
  18. Tayyib Akhi Abubakr1, just keep in mind that this is the 'Beliefs & Fundamentals' section, and most of what you have posted is conjecture or based upon weak transmissions, so even though you may know the correct opinion in all that, many may not know the difference.

    Sometimes prefacing posts with 'this is weak, however so-and-so reported', or 'from the books of history, it was transmitted', and statements like these so that the reader prepares them self not to be too invested in what is to follow, lest it raise some needless obsession or doubt in their mind. And it is from the manners of conveyance of sound knowledge, even of weak traditions, to identify what is weak from what is strong, depending on the audience.

    I pray that I am able to follow my own advice and that it is well received by my brother in Islam.

    However, by all means continue informing us, as much of this is new to me, not having read in its entirety the books of history, Ma Sha Allah, wa Jazaak Allahu khayraan...
     
  19. Pluma

    Pluma <A HREF="showthread.php?t=70991"></A>

    Not exactly. There is a lot of emperor who builded walls against the mongols. He just stated that he was one of them, without giving a name or an epoch.
     
  20. Butterknife al-Batil

    Butterknife al-Batil <A HREF="showthread.php?t=70991"></A>

    I would certainly say the Great Wall of China was built AFTER Dhul Qarnain's as the Chinese might have gotten the idea from him in order to stop the Scythians.

    I know for a fact the Armenians have named a river after Cyrus and most likely he was the one who built the wall to stop attacks by wild tribes on the Medians.

    Allaahu Alim, this is a interesting topic that I've tried looking into. I remember reading a quote from Ibn Khurdadhibah where he mentions an expedition of Sallaam. When Sallaam had reached a wall he put his ear to it and herd the ruckus caused by the people behind it.

    I would say the Turks are just a sub-tribe of Ya'juj and Ma'juj, as Ma'juj were the ones who moved into the territory of Ya'juj.
     
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2010

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